Carol Swain and Michael Patrick Leahy Discuss Virginia and Thomas Jefferson’s Lineage


Live from Music Row Thursday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. –  host Leahy welcomed all-star panelist Dr. Carol Swain to the studio.

During the second hour, Swain discussed the decline of her home state of Virginia at the hand of the Democrats. She also commented about how the Left loves science unless it doesn’t prove whatever narrative they are pushing out there such as former President Thomas Jefferson’s genealogy claiming that he fathered four children with a slave.

Leahy: Thursday is my favorite day of the week. Why is that? Because I’m joined most Thursday’s at 6:30 by the all-star panelist, good friend, a former professor at Vanderbilt and Princeton and formal mayoral candidate Carol Swain.

Swain: Good morning Michael and Tennessee Star Report listeners. I miss you all too when I’m not here.

Leahy: We’ve got to have you here every Thursday. We miss you. Tell us about your travels. Where have you been?

Swain: Where have I been? I spoke at the Council of National Policy.

Leahy: That’s a big deal.

Swain: It is a big deal. I was on the big stage.

Leahy: You were on the big stage! That’s been around for a decade. And its where all the big thinking conservatives and very influential people attend that.

Swain: Well based on the comments and the reaction it was a very successful presentation. I was told I knocked the ball out of the court and that a star was born. (Laughs)

Leahy: Our listeners Carol know that you are a star. They’ve known that for some time.

Swain: Well you know my view is a little bit different from many of the people that are out there speaking. And so I think the sense was that I was hitting some things that needed to be addressed.

Leahy: How many people were at this event? And where was it held?

Swain: It was held in D.C. And I think there was a cap of 250 but it seemed like more.

Leahy: Was it like at a big hotel or a big well-known hotel?

Swain: It was a hotel that opened up just for us.

Leahy: Really? (Swain chuckles) This is what a big deal it is.

Swain: But I’m not supposed to tell all the details.

Leahy: You can’t tell the details.

Swain: I think Wikipedia says that the National Council on Policy is a secret society that is trying to bring about transform America into a theological society. Theocratic.

Leahy: Yeah. You know. But Wikipedia, I mean c’mon. Wikipedia?

Swain: But Mike Pence and Kellyanne Conway…

Leahy: Mike Pence was there?

Swain: No, I’m saying people that have come out of CNP. There is a whole list of conservatives over the years that have gone through CNP. And it’s a group that you can’t join and you have to be invited to be a member. So I’ve calm a long way since Bedford County, Virginia.

Leahy: Bedford County, Virginia. We learned a little something about this. Those that listen know we’ve done a little genealogical research about your background. And your great, great, great grandfather was a man named Thomas Jefferson who we think lived about from 1801 to 1870.

So that Thomas Jefferson was not necessarily the Thomas Jefferson. Well, he was not the Thomas Jefferson. But we are wondering if he was related to Thomas Jefferson. I think you did a little bit of investigative work over the last couple of days. Tell us about that.

Swain: I visited Monticello and doing the presentations, what I learned is that most of the slaves were housed in I think Poplar Forest, Virginia which is in Bedford County.

Leahy: Which is where you are from.

Swain: That’s where I am from. But the side of the family that had Thomas Jefferson as an ancestor they were from Rockbridge County.

Leahy: Oh yeah, that’s right. It’s very close but in different counties.

Swain: They sort of migrated from Rockbridge County to Bedford.

Leahy: So there is a group that we are looking at for the origin of this Thomas Jefferson. Your great, great great grandfather.

Swain: The Giddings Project or something like that?

Leahy: We are going to be looking into that. And you have something very interesting to talk about.

Swain: Here is what I feel about Virginia. I love my state and as a child, I was proud to be a Virginian because that was the home of presidents. As I learned about Booker T.  Washington and his impact on the nation.

Leahy: Wasn’t he born in Bedford County also? Or close to?

Swain: It was very close. About 10 miles away. So my state is so rich with history and I don’t like what the Democrats are doing to it at this point in time. They are destroying Virginia.

Leahy: And you know we launched The Virginia Star on August 17? So we have The Virginia Star now.

Swain: I want you and our listeners to get behind a congressional candidate named Bob Good.

Leahy: Oh, Bob Good is good. Isn’t that the fifth district?

Swain: It’s the fifth district and it includes the part of Virginia of where I was born and raised.

Leahy: From all accounts, he’s a really strong conservative candidate.

Swain: He is and he defeated a Republican RINO that officiated at a gay wedding.

Leahy: What was that guy’s name? He really kind of goofed it up didn’t he?

Swain: He was an older guy too. He was clearly someone that infiltrated the Republican Party.

Leahy: Riggleman.

Swain: He didn’t share the views of Republicans when it comes to the family.

Leahy: In the beginning, he represented himself as a conservative.

Swain: They do it all the time. All they have to say is Jesus. That’s all you have to say to get some votes.

Leahy: Absolutely on that. What I found very interesting and you looked at this yourself. The third President of the United States Thomas Jefferson born in 1743 and died in 1846. He built the beautiful Monticello. And there has been a historical controversy there. His first wife died.

And then the half-sister of his first wife was a slave by the name of Sally Hemmings. The general belief has come to be subsequently and its the official position of Monticello even though you looked into the DNA and it’s not quite there. The official position is that they say that Thomas Jefferson was the father of three or four of her children?

Swain: They present it as a fact that he fathered four of her children. But the DNA shows a link with only one child. I think the older one.

Leahy: So there is only a DNA link to one of those four children to the Jefferson line. Not necessarily Thomas Jefferson.

Swain: And here’s the interesting things. The Left loves science unless it doesn’t prove whatever narrative they are pushing. So if you say that DNA we want Thomas Jefferson’s DNA to prove that he fathered all of these children with a slave woman and then you do the DNA analysis and it doesn’t support the narrative.

And what does the Left and politically correct people do? They continue with the narrative. So I thin its problematic that we allow them to get away with that. And then at Monticello that they would present it as fact when the evidence doesn’t back it up.

Leahy: As you know, I’m a genealogy detective. But I looked at that. And the official report at Monticello ironically asserts that he did father the children.

Swain: And you know why? Because with this political correctness and this Marxist ideology and critical theory the oral narrative from the slaves says that. And that trumps the DNA evidence.

Leahy: That’s a very clever use of words there.

Swain: But I mean it does. Then there is going to be this new controversy about George Floyd’s death. Was he murdered by a police officer? Or did he die of a drug overdose?

Leahy: There is a report from the medical examiner that the cause of death that I saw this report just the other day was that the cause of death was a drug overdose.

Swain: Here is the thing that was shocking. The doctors hired by the family did not look at the medical report basically and that they went by the video. I mean all of us sat there and saw the video. They did not do any science. They didn’t do any science.

And I feel like Benjamin Crump and those doctors should be held accountable for a lot of the violence and this narrative that’s out there that made it seem clear cut murder right before our eyes. And people are framing this writing books and articles that a man was murdered before our eyes when the evidence suggests that he wasn’t. And their autopsy did not prove that he was murdered.

Leahy: Back on the DNA science with Thomas Jefferson what I was saying…

Swain: My brain jumps around. (Laughs)

Leahy: That’s OK. Our audience loves the way your brain moves Carol. (Swain giggles) But back on the Jefferson DNA. About 10 years ago they had a big committee at Monticello.

Swain: I remember.

Leahy: And the majority report said absolutely. But the minority report written by a guy who followed the science was this. Sorry guys the DNA simply shows that one of the children of Sally Hemmings did descend from the broad Jefferson line.

But there is no way you can prove it was Thomas Jefferson. It could have been his brother. It could have been his nephew. It could have been somebody else in that line close to Jefferson. That’s what the DNA shows.

Swain: I just think we have made such a mistake in this country by not recording truth that we make the truth whatever is politically correct.

Leahy: Amen sister.

Listen to the full second hour here:

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Tune in weekdays from 5:00 – 8:00 a.m. to the Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy on Talk Radio 98.3 FM WLAC 1510. Listen online at iHeart Radio







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One Thought to “Carol Swain and Michael Patrick Leahy Discuss Virginia and Thomas Jefferson’s Lineage”

  1. CCW

    Many of us Appalachian Americans can trace our lineage back to Ol’ Virgini’. It may not be Jefferson’s DNA but he had friends and relatives. I think that is where we got our reverence to God and burning desire to Live Free.