Stretching Credulity: Crom Carmichael Explains the Difference Between Proof and Evidence



Live from Music Row Monday morning on The Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy – broadcast on Nashville’s Talk Radio 98.3 and 1510 WLAC weekdays from 5:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. –  host Leahy welcomed the original all-star panelist Crom Carmichael to the studio to clarify the difference between proof and evidence while revealing the facts pertaining to the current presidential election voting tabulations.

Leahy: We are joined now by the original all-star panelist and good friend Crom Carmichael. Good morning, Crom.

Carmichael: Michael. How are you, sir?

Leahy: You know it’s interesting Crom, I noticed over the weekend apparently there must have been a change in the constitution at least as far as former President George W. Bush is concerned because apparently under his interpretation of the constitution the Electoral College votes are allocated by the major news networks. (Laughter) He congratulated ‘President-Elect Joe Biden.’

Carmichael: Well, here’s what’s interesting. There are people out there and as I was on the way in I was thinking Carl, would be one of them.

Leahy: And by the way, Carl is a good friend of the program.

Carmichael: I understand.

Leahy: Good guy.

Carmichael: I’ve heard him called into the program a lot. And so Carl is not alone. I’m not isolating Carl. There is a difference between proof and evidence. Now, we’ve heard of cases where people are convicted based on circumstantial evidence. We have other cases where they’re convicted by proof. So let me give an example of circumstantial evidence and Carl can think about this so that the next time that he calls in.

Generally, he calls him before I get here. But this would be a case of circumstantial evidence. You have a husband and a wife. The wife goes out of town on a business trip. She comes in a day before she supposed to come back. She walks into the house and she finds a pair of thong panties in the bathroom that are not hers. She finds her husband’s shirt with lipstick on it that is not her shade.

Leahy: Are we going X-rated here? (Chuckles)

Carmichael: No, she finds perfume that is not hers in the bed and on the pillows. now, she has no proof that her husband is having an affair in their own home. But she has lots of evidence. So if you were the jury listening to her case if she was suing, how would you decide? That would be a question to ask Carl based on those facts which do not include proof but do include a lot of facts that are called in evidence.

So now let’s move to the election. we know for a fact that in Pennsylvania they counted many many ballots that came in after the day of the election. We know for a fact.

Leahy: We also know that the law…

Carmichael: We know for a fact that the law says that for a ballot to be valid in Pennsylvania, which is the law must be in by election day. They kept counting afterward. We know for a fact that in Michigan there was one particular precinct where they found six thousand ballots where people because of the machines that were used and the software that were for Trump that they said, oh we found a glitch after they were caught that had gone for a ballot that people would vote for Trump that had been flipped to Biden. We know that that same software was used in 43 other counties in Michigan. We’ve not looked into that yet.

Leahy: Well, I think 37 other states in various counties as well.

Carmichael: Okay? Well, that’s additional information that I didn’t know. I knew about the Michigan part. We know for a fact that in Milwaukee the voter turnout not only across the state of Wisconsin was way above.

It’s kind of like saying to Carl, ‘Carl. I’m going to flip a coin. We’re on the phone now, Carl. I’m going to flip a coin 50 times in a row and over the phone, I’m going to flip it. I’m going to call it and I’ll tell you the result.’

If I were to do that and then I was going to flip it and call it correctly 50 times in a row and there was nobody in the room with me to confirm it would you believe me? And the answer is if Joe Biden were flipping the coin, Carl would want to believe him so badly that he would say yes, even though any reasonable person knows that Carl is stretching credulity here.

Leahy: Stretching credulity. That’s a good phrase.

Carmichael: Thank you. Thank you. And so so what you see is across the country like in Nevada we know for a fact that the head of the voter database in Nevada knew and said before they mailed out the ballots to every registered voter that there are tens of thousands of people who are on the registered voter rolls who are either dead or who have moved from the state and should not be on those. They said they mailed them out anyway.

We know that in Georgia, we know that when they counted the mail-in ballots, we know that as a matter of process they discarded the outer envelope. They’re not supposed to do that. They’re supposed to keep the outer envelope with the ballot because that’s what determines who actually mailed it so that you can determine whether or not the signature is correct. And here’s the difficulty and here’s why. It’s like the metaphor that I used.

All of the facts line up to help one candidate. None of the facts line up to help the other candidate. This is the coin flip of 50 times in a row. They just can’t miraculously all fall the same way. Now, let’s look at additional evidence. The additional evidence is that Republicans flipped three state legislators in the country. They didn’t lose a single one. So for those people out there who hate Trump and want Trumpism to be repudiated, they lost.

The Republicans picked up House seats. We don’t know yet how many. I’m hoping that every valid every legal vote counts in those. And if when it’s over, let’s assume for purposes of discussion Republicans picked up 10. Go back in history and find any time where one party lost the presidency and picked up 10 House seats in the same election. Find it. You won’t. That’s another fact in evidence.

And so while the Democrats and while the media can claim that Biden has won you correctly told Carl until the vote is certified by a state and that will only be after the lawsuits. I also agree with you by the way that the chances that Trump will win are somewhere in the 20 percent range. Yeah, because the cheating was so pervasive. And I say that because of facts in evidence. And by the way, there will be some proof because on some of the program’s last night they said that they’ve already found ballots in Philadelphia or in Pennsylvania where dead people not only voted they registered to vote after they died.

Leahy: After they died.

Carmichael: Those would that would be proof? Yeah of voter fraud. So we’ll have to just wait and see. now do I have a problem with Biden working on what his administration would look like? I don’t have any problem with that. It doesn’t matter. It’s up to him. But do I want to wait? Yes. Now do I think it’s in and I’m sure Carl would agree with this. Carl would tell you he does not want Biden to win if Carl himself believed that Biden had cheated. I’m sure Carl would say that.

And so since there is so much consternation and concerns about how this election process was done, this country can send a piece of equipment to Mars. We’re working on sending a human being to Mars. If we can do that surely we can find a way to process votes in a way so that everyone will agree that every legal vote counted and not a single illegal vote counted. The last piece of evidence that I will offer is that apparently there was a huge number of ballots that came in in the various states that are in question where the ballot showed that the voters only voted for Biden.

They didn’t vote for a single other candidate in any other race. (Chuckles) How many friends does Carl have who go in and say, I think now that I’ve waited in line for all these hours and now that I’ve gone through this whole process I think I’ll just vote for the presidential race. And I’m going to ignore the Senate race. I’m going to ignore the congressional races and I’m going to ignore all the others? I’m sorry, the evidence does not support Carl’s side.

Leahy: That’s correct.

Carmichael: By the way, it will never support Carl’s side. But that doesn’t mean that Biden might not become president, which is why it is so important that we correct the errors in our system. And so that the public officials are required under criminal law to follow the laws of their own states. This is not hard by the way. If the legislature of a state says a valid ballot must be in by election day or it is not valid if that’s what the state legislators said, then a public official who violates that is violating our everybody’s civil rights and should go to prison.

Leahy: We’ll see if the Supreme Court takes that case up. I think they should. I think they should. But you know, John Roberts has been questionable of late.

Carmichael: Well, John Roberts isn’t so dispositive now.

Leahy: Well, that’s a very good point.

Carmichael: He’s not dispositive now. We have nine members including Amy Coney Barrett.

Leahy: We now have nine members on the court.

Carmichael: We’ll see how that turns and and and for anyone – including Carl – who cares about rule of law. He ought to want the Supreme Court to take it up. Otherwise, he’s showing his hand.

Listen to the full second hour here:

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Tune in weekdays from 5:00 – 8:00 a.m. to the Tennessee Star Report with Michael Patrick Leahy on Talk Radio 98.3 FM WLAC 1510. Listen online at iHeart Radio.






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