TC Weber, author of the Substack “Dad Gone Wild Newsletter,” and The Tennessee Star’s CEO and editor-in-chief, Michael Patrick Leahy, debated the merits of Direct Instruction and the role of state government in public education during Friday’s edition of The Michael Patrick Leahy Show.
The discussion focused on Leahy’s proposal that Tennessee mandate Direct Instruction as the primary method for teaching reading, writing, and mathematics in K-5 classrooms statewide.
Weber said he did not oppose Direct Instruction as a teaching tool but objected to making it the dominant instructional model.
“There is no one way to instruct students,” Weber said. “There’s no one plan that’s the silver bullet. There’s no one plan that works for every student. So the best teachers use a toolbox. If the job calls for a hammer, they pull a hammer out. If the job calls for a screwdriver, they pull a screwdriver out, and that’s what we should be enabling them to do.”
Leahy responded that he believes the evidence overwhelmingly supports Direct Instruction.
“I disagree with your premise that multiple strategies are the best way to teach reading, writing, and arithmetic,” Leahy said. “I think the evidence is overwhelming that the Direct Instruction methodology, scripted choral response, et cetera, it’s very complicated, but if we see it, it is by far the best way to do it.”
The two also disagreed over whether Tennessee should require the instructional model statewide.
“The state should mandate Direct Instruction as the methodology for teaching reading, writing, and mathematics in K-5,” Leahy said.
Weber argued against state mandates in education.
“I am not a big government guy,” Weber said. “I don’t want the government mandating virtually anything to me. I want the government supporting and providing resources, but I don’t want them mandating something, especially something that they can go their whole… they can never have contact with. How many legislators are actually in classrooms? How many legislators actually know how a school is run? I would argue very few.”
Weber emphasized the importance of teacher-student relationships in educational outcomes.
“The number one thing that leads to success for students is the relationship between a student and a teacher,” Weber said. “That is the number one thing, and I believe every supporting policy should support that. If it doesn’t, it becomes a distraction.”
He also criticized the use of scripted lessons.
“Scripted lessons on a timeline, as is already being practiced in [Metro Nashville Public Schools] right now, is not a way to develop those relationships,” Weber said. “In fact, it deters from those relationships. So you may goose your test scores, which is a whole nother argument, if those are an accurate reflection of student preparedness for modern life. But you may goose those, but are you really educating a child through scripted lessons?”
Leahy cited Tennessee’s reading and math proficiency scores as evidence that significant changes are needed.
“Fourth grade proficiency in reading is what – 32 percent?” Leahy said. “Math is 42 percent, which is really pretty bad.”
Weber questioned the validity of using standardized test scores as the primary measure of educational success.
“We take and put too much emphasis on an imperfect system,” Weber said. “Again, I don’t know, because I’ve never seen it, nor have I known anybody who’s ever seen it because of proprietary reasons, if it adequately represents what a kid needs to know in 2026.”
He added, “We’re misusing those. I’ve said that for years. We have seven different tests that school districts can give their kids. Seven different, and they’re screeners. And their purpose is to guide instruction, to identify weakness so that teachers can get them and move forward. We don’t use them for that. We use them to say, ‘Look at us. We got 45 percent. Look at us. We got this.’”
The debate also touched on whether high-performing school districts should be required to adopt Direct Instruction.
Leahy said the state should implement Direct Instruction universally.
Weber pointed to districts such as Maryville as examples of schools succeeding under different approaches.
“They have a methodology that is working, and that has proven successful, and they have data to back it up. They’re excelling without Direct Instruction,” Weber said, noting how difficult it would be “to compel somebody to change in an area where they’re excelling.”
Leahy maintained that the Tennessee General Assembly has the authority to establish statewide educational standards and methodologies.
“The Tennessee State Constitution actually says the state has a duty to create a system of free public education,” Leahy said. “It’s the state that has the authority.”
Weber acknowledged the state’s authority but argued that political realities could make implementation difficult.
“You cannot separate the politics when it comes to public education,” Weber said.
Both ultimately acknowledged that implementing any statewide education policy would present significant challenges.
After Weber argued that mandates often prove difficult to enforce in practice, Leahy agreed, saying, “I agree with you on that. And that’s the challenge.”
Weber also expressed support for Direct Instruction as one tool among many available to educators, saying, “It’s not to dismiss the whole idea. I think there’s definitely a place in the toolkit for direct instruction.”
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Kaitlin Housler is a reporter at The Tennessee Star and The Star News Network.
I have no knowledge of Mr. Weber. BUT his arguments ring hollow considering the abysmal results of the current “anything that fits” model for Tennessee public schools.